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Comments

James

"(if having sex with an obliterated girl constitutes rape, virtually every straight guy in America is a rapist)"

No... No. This is not true at all. It's an unfortunate, destructive, totally inaccurate stereotype, and I would think you'd know all about that. Not "virtually every." Not even close.

Nicolars

Wow, this is exactly like the Jezebel comments section. Except I haven't seen any mention of "triggers" and ptsd. Yet.

Kerlyssa

God forbid people have an opinion on Rich's opinion. If he doesn't want people to respond critically, he should just make another post on Winston's num nums.

Amazingly, when someone has a blog with comments turned on, other people's opinions will be posted. If you only want to rad Rich's opinions, only read the OP.

He wrote what he wrote.

Molly

Uh, Mike Owen, I think you missed the point of my comment entirely? I never said I thought this movie would make people go out and commit rape. I actually never even said anything about whether or not I agree with the scene being included in the film, or anything about "agreed upon morality". The thing I have a problem with is Rich's comment, which is what I stated quite clearly. But hey, thanks for being condescending, much appreciated.

Johnny

Ok, first of all, when he realizes she is passed out (which leads one to the logical conclusion she was not passed out before) he shows concern and asks if she is ok (which if it were rape and he was taking advantage of a passed out woman the last thing he would want to do is have her regain consciousness) to which she replies "Did I tell you to stop, mother fucker?". This is different than if she would have said "NO STOP DON'T DO THIS".

This isn't Straw Dogs here people, this girl is not turned on by her "rapist", she's just a party girl who mixes drugs/alcohol with sex on a regular basis. She is not a representative of all females who have ever lived, but a character in a movie; albeit a very realistic character. If you don't believe this type of person exists, go downtown this Saturday night and you will meet a fair share of them.

If there is still some confusion with some of you thinking this is still "rape", consider that the character herself doesn't at all (and rightfully so).

Ruth

The thing that bothers me about this post isn't the scene in the movie itself--although the ambiguity over whether it was fully consensual is enough to make any woman who's been in any even remotely similar situation feel sad and gross and uncomfortable--it's this:

(if having sex with an obliterated girl constitutes rape, virtually every straight guy in America is a rapist)

That's much more gross. I wouldn't expect most men, much less most gay men, to understand the sort of desperately sad helpless feeling of not being in control enough to necessarily say "no"--so maybe that's excusable--but this is not.

Leroy

"I wouldn't expect most men, much less most gay men, to understand the sort of desperately sad helpless feeling of not being in control enough to necessarily say 'no'--so maybe that's excusable--but this is not."

I've had that experience, too. I was caught in a giant spider's web, and the spider had injected me with its immobilizing poison. I tried to form an "N" sound followed by an "O" sound, but the insidious poison had nearly paralyzed my facial muscles. Mind you, I was in control enough to say "begone, you mean old spider" and to show it my middle finger, but not enough to necessarily say "no." I felt so desperately sad and helpless. But then I realized I was just being a pussy. So I kicked the spider in the nuts and went back to eating my curds and whey.

Boy am I sick of people telling me I can't understand human emotions because I'm white, or because I'm a man, or because I'm gay.

matthew

Ruth, you are a sexist pig

matthew

I thought the scene was one of the best scenes in the film, it was one of the few times I laughed during what I considered a 5/10 film at best.

KatieD

I'm glad someone else appreciate this movie. And can we talk about the Asian twin security guards? "Yuens, you guys are my infantry. One of you dies, God gave me another one."

Ruth

Yep. That's pretty much the response I expected. It's not even worth it to try to explain myself further, I don't feel like getting ripped to shreds today.

Cheers.

RP

@thistlebones: Rich's post does not imply that it isn't rape or that rape isn't a problem.

The statement, "if having sex with an obliterated girl constitutes rape, virtually every straight guy in America is a rapist" doesn't imply that it's OK. It only says that a lot men don't see anything wrong with having sex with a woman who's intoxicated. Unfortunately, that's true. Men get women drunk in order to have sex with them and many have no trouble admitting to it (remember Dave Chappelle's "Great Moments in Hookup History"?).

I don't see why Rich should get blasted for pointing that out or get accused of saying anything more than what that statement says.

k

"if having sex with an obliterated girl constitutes rape, virtually every straight guy in America is a rapist"

I can't think of any of my friends, male or female, that HAVEN'T had drunk sex.

I don't think Rich meant that just because most people do it means that it's always ok, he was just stating that it happens A LOT.

I mean, I've been sexually assaulted, but I've also had lots and lots of CONSENSUAL drunk sex. So, the definition of "rape" is contextual. Just because you're drunk doesn't mean you don't know anything that's going on and can't make decisions. But, if that really is the case, then maybe you shouldn't go around getting that wasted. Responsible drinking habits, dears.

Kerlyssa

Because the way he said it is as an excuse. In context, he sets it up as an opposing statement to the critics who saw the scene as a rape. He is making an apologetic in which things that large amounts of men do cannot be bad. Following this, Rich's fan then make excuse for the statement because their liking of Rich conflicts with what Rich said.

It's a nasty statement, about a nasty movie, that brings up nasty attitudes. But, hey, new ANTM post is up. We can all go back to reading about how one barely memorable model is a fugmonster and watching gifs of people blinking. Win!(ston?)

Whitney G

I volunteer as a rape response advocate, where I attend the sexual assault examinations after rapes and counsel the sexual assault survivors. I've stood beside the exam table and held the hands of infants, teenage girls, elderly women, middle-aged women, and yes, even a couple of men -- from all walks of life, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, and degrees of intoxication.

Because of my years of experience with this, I tend to be just a bit unforgiving when it comes to victim-blaming. Telling a woman to "grow a pair" is just plain damn offensive. As is saying "the problem with the super-politically-correct brand of sexual understanding, wherein everyone must consent to everything." I guess I'm a horrible person for expecting there to be mutual consent for sexual acts. How dare I!

That being said, the issue of intoxication and consent is a tricky one. Some states require that not only must the victim have been so impaired that he/she could not consent, but the other party must know (or reasonably know) that the victim's condition rendered her/him incapable of consent. In such cases, if both parties are drunk/stoned out of their minds, then it's hard to prove rape because the man was so intoxicated that he couldn't make a reasonable determination about the victim's consent.

Observe and Report is a movie that was made to offend and provoke thought. Portraying a grey area of is-it-or-isn't-it-rape in a film does not offend me. This shit happens in real life -- why shouldn't our media reflect it? The infamous scene made people talk about the problems of consenting to sex while intoxicated, and that discussion is good.

I saw no problem with Rich's review, or with his discussion of the scene. He acknowledged that there are no easy answers here, and that the movie doesn't give the audience the full story. I didn't love the line about "every straight man in America" (there are plenty of straight men who won't bang a puking-drunk chick), but I understood the point: this is, sadly, our reality, which can be horribly fucked-up.

jabbarjabbar

The scary thing is I read that last comment as:
"I can rape all guys do it"

I don't know the boundaries of rape. I think if someone is puking it should be a good indicator that their judgement is clouded. Remember in 40 year old Virgin when the advice is to find the drunkest girl in the room...

I watched the movie and it is one weird flick.

livingdots

oh, please. just shut up you whiny cunts.

Kevin

Those gifs are great! I didn't expect much from this movie, I mean the acting cast isn't exactly high calibre. So it wouldn't surprise me that its as trashy as possible.

Matt

I thought that scene was played just as it should have in a DARK COMEDY. In other words, a film where we're meant to laugh at things that are otherwise taboo.

Of course that doesn't mean I condone date rape, but when I saw this film (unaware of the controversy), I didn't find anything about it objectionable. Brandi seems to be just as flawed a character as Ronnie. They're both a bit of a mess. And based on the scenes leading up to the "date rape," as well as the comment she makes during the act, I read it as both characters wanting sex (albeit two really fucked up characters... & I don't just mean "fucked up" as in drunk & high on pills).

I know we shouldn't be glorifying rape in any instance of pop culture (even though I don't think this is rape), be it dark comedies or not, but what about all the violence?! There's lots of violence in Observe & Report that I thought were played for laughs (or at least done in a darkly comic manner) that people didn't seem to have a problem with. Why? Because it's a darkly comic fictional film about a bunch of lowly sleazeballs: Ronnie, Brandi, the flasher, Mrs. Barnhardt, etc, etc, etc.

I loved it. I also loved Fargo & Pulp Fiction, where lots of characters were killed in comically absurd & very violent ways, but I didn't think the filmmakers were condoning murder.

People seem to be more bothered by sex than violence.

Lil_JuJuFruit

Alot of so-called "sexual assualts" can be avoided.

When you get drunk and spend the night with somebody you accept the risks that come with that behavior.

A woman getting attacked in her home or walking to her car is a victim. Someone getting wasted and passing out, leaving herself vulnerable to people around is irresponsible. These women do not inspire any sympathy. How can you compare a women being attacked on her way home from school or work to a woman getting drunk and spending the night with someone? Get real.

Plenty of woman have never been taken advantage of simply because they have never put themselves in a bad situation.

I find it unbelievable that women put themselves in these situations and then blame the man.

bazooka pete

i agree, it was totally rape. when he thought she had fallen asleep he stops - but she tells him to keep going. her intimidating behaviour and his weakness in social situations + inebriated condition allowed her to take advantage.

if you say yes when you are drunk or high, and you are drunk/high because that was your intention (as in you weren't drugged) then I am sorry but it isn't rape. just like if i punch a cop when i am drunk, i wont get off lightly because 'i didnt mean it'. YOU are responsible for YOU. you drink so much you cant say no, dont drink so much.

how is a drunk man supposed to know how drunk she is? throwing up and passing out means nothing. if you know anything about drinking at a hgih level, some people throw up or get drowsy whilst still mentally agile, while others can get so drunk they cant talk, but still walk around. maybe he was more wasted then her.

anybody who thinks that this short scene definatively demonstrates rape is, in my honest opinion, a fool and i hope next time you do something you regret whilst intoxicated, somebody tells you to grow up when you say you didnt mean it.

besides - who said she regretted it?

auto jumper cable

This post absolutely made my day. Your optimism and integrity are inspiring. If I was hiring for any job, I'd hire you!

auto booster cable

This was the scariest story to me!!! I would run out of the room rather than hear it re-told, that caused trouble when it was my classroom I was running out of. I was afraid I'd dream about it, a fear I had about pretty much everything as a child...
Well told.
Happy Halloween!

booster cables

When you have a black cat, every day is Halloween. I enjoyed this and I have to admit I would not miss the holiday if it disappeared in the states, too. It lost its charm when the litte fun size candy bars appeared. Cheap!

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